An interactive blog, curated by composers and performers, tracing the ideas and process behind the music.

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February 26, 2015

Through the Composers’ Eyes: Turbulent Inspirations

This weekend, ICE returns to Abrons Arts Center for three more free concerts in our OpenICE series.

We asked the composers featured on each program for insight into their pieces, and they responded with thoughts on the complexity of the sleep cycle, predation, trauma, Alvin Lucier, and late 19th-century technological discoveries.


Small Talks: Alice Teyssier and Ryan Muncy

February 27, 2015 | 8:00pm



Marcos Balter (b.1974): The Landscape of Fear (2014) (World Premiere) for sopranino saxophone and piccolo trumpet

“Landscape of Fear” is a term used by ecologists for the interaction between a prey and its surroundings according to its assessment of predation risk of a space. In this duo, the two musicians take both roles, prey and predator, in a controlled yet repeatedly changed musical environment that requires them to simultaneously create and survive new constraints.


Malin Bang (b.1974): Alpha Waves (2008) for alto flute

Hyper-active intense courses of events, at the same time as complete stillness and relaxation. The sleep cycle is like a paradox of complex motions and deep tranquility entwined in one simultaneous action. During the three first phases of the cycle we are moving from a light and easily disturbed sleep towards heavy and deep sleep, while the muscle activity and eye movements slowly disappear. Alpha Waves occur during two phases of the sleep cycle, first when you are relaxing with closed eyes before sleeping and then they appear again during the dream sleep.

During the fourth phase the extremely slow brain signals called delta waves appear and take over. But only until the dream sleep suddenly capture us and throws us into its world of chaos and unpredictable challenges…


Morgan Krauss (b.1985): Overcast in the purest of hues, Mvts. I and III (2013) for baritone saxophone and bass flute

Imagine what it is to come upon or be subjected to trauma. Emotional,

physical or the like...

At first your mind races; you are inept. Every thought and bodily

awareness becomes an

untidy collection or pile of things spilling from within your being


overcast in the purest of hues is an exploitation of the latter.


Bradley Rosen: new work (2015) (World Premiere) for flute and saxophone



Dialogues at the Margins: Cory Smythe and Steve Lehman

February 28, 2015 | 8:00pm



From Steve Lehman:

Cory and I will be performing new works that we've developed collaboratively over the past several months. We used Alvin Lucier's work with sine waves, audible beating, and gradual processes as a kind of jumping off point for our own work. And  those musical themes/materials permeate the vast majority of his output in some way, shape, or form. Lucier was one of my professors at Wesleyan from 1996-2002. So, it was fun to think about some of the ways in which my own musical preoccupations overlap with his work.


ICElab Preview: Phonobellow Work-in-Progress

March 1, 2015 | 4:00pm


From Zosha Di Castri and David Adamcyk:

This show is dedicated to the Edisons and Muybridges of yesteryear...may similar minds continue to shake us into wondrous disbelief.

Through music, electronics, sculpture, spoken word, and projection, Phonobellow explores how phonography and photography have altered our sense of perception over time. In an attempt to get back to the initial sense of awe that enshrouded these technological discoveries at the end of the 19th century, we have built a large kinetic sound sculpture, similar to an over-sized old-fashioned camera bellows, which is manipulated and played by five musicians. This structure takes on different shapes and connotations over the course of the hour long performance, re-enchanting the concert hall with its mercurial, phantasmagoric form.


For Saxophone, Bassoon, Percussion, Piano & Violin

Fragments of texts by Russolo, Rilke, Barthes, Cocteau, and Gould

Videography by Ben Hagari

Written in collaboration with the musicians of ICE

January 1, 2015

Education Update #2: YOLA and Far-flung Correspondents

by Jacob Greenberg, pianist and Education ICE Artist Partner

Meanwhile, on the left coast of America, in between exciting performances and recordings, ICE started to establish a teaching presence. In the second week of December, the group began a major education initiative at Youth Orchestra Los Angeleswhich is the El Sistema teaching program of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. On one of the three YOLA campuses, in the central L.A. Rampart district, eight intrepid ICE artists worked with forty-three middle school wind, brass, and percussion players on activities familiar to us but totally new to the students, involving improvisation skills, a classic American "process piece," and other mind-stretching activities. Over three days of work, we all got along famously.

Improvisation is always the hardest kind of activity to start, especially in a group. How and when does one begin to play?  How can one spontaneously generate material that is not practiced or familiar, and distant from traditional ideas of harmony and rhythm?  How does one engage a colleague in a “conversation"? Though hesitant at first, the students really latched onto the extended playing techniques that ICE introduced during our sessions, and these were a good point of entry. Sometimes it is easier to start with sounds not associated with one’s own playing, at least as one knows it. The students overcame their self-consciousness, and beautiful things emerged.

Josh and Rebekah led a choir of clarinets, bassoons, and oboes to create a forest of subtones, shadowy notes activated by special fingerings and light breathing. Claire and Alice worked with the flutes to make a structured improvisation with a storyline, using different techniques to convey each scene: key clicks, tongue rams, and whistle tones, among others. And Peter Evans and David Byrd made a game of rapid-fire directives, using a number system to start and stop each type of playing within their brass group.

ICE also focused on American composers that we’ve known and worked with: George Lewis’s Artificial Life was a point of departure for improvising, and tested the students’ knowledge of musical concepts. Christian Wolff’s Microexercises, an ICE commission, encouraged the young players to adapt musical material for different instruments. ICE also showed off one of our own composers: in addition to teaching in the residency, Levy Lorenzo brought his invented joystick instruments to a lucky group of four percussionists. Four video game joysticks controlled a wide range of sounds and dynamics, and the players learned Levy’s score, a evocative system of graphic symbols. Levy rehearsed and brilliantly conducted the group.

A final presentation for the students’ families and the community included all these activities, and one more: Frederic Rzewski’s Les Moutons de Panurge, a favorite of our friends in eighth blackbird. This process piece has players construct an additive melody note by note, played continuously but always going back to note one in the sequence. ICE finished the piece with each student instrumental section taking a virtuoso solo turn.

And that’s not all! Happily, ICE has brought education programming on each of its recent tours, including an elementary school group in Morelia, Mexico, during El Festival de Música de Morelia. This was a session of The Listening Room, where the students got to know each of the ICE players and composed colorful graphic scores for us to play together. At the end of our time together, they gave us a cheer! And after David Bowlin and Jen Curtis’s amazing Chicago OpenICE performance, both players had memorable sessions with second graders at the Lycée Français and with students at the Chicago High School for the Performing Arts. Improvisation was the common link; the young students accompanied the violinists with handheld percussion, and Jen had the high schoolers play freely over a chord sequence from Vivaldi.

ICE education knows no limits! In the spring, we’re looking forward to more activities in New York public schools, and a continuing collaboration with CSIC, Composers and Schools in Concert, involving many of our ICElab composers. Stay tuned!

YOLA brass with maestro David Byrd-Marrow.

YOLA flute sextet with Claire Chase and Alice Teyssier.

ChiArts quintet with David Bowlin and Jennifer Curtis.

December 1, 2014

Education Update:  Graphic Music at the Lycée

by Jacob Greenberg, pianist and Education ICE Artist Partner

ICE education has been literally all over the map this fall!  In a few days, I’ll post about our workshops in Morelia, Mexico during our appearance at that city’s music festival over Thanksgiving.  And this weekend, ICE starts our inaugural residency with Youth Orchestra L.A., the education arm of the Los Angeles Philharmonic.

In October, ICE began a special year-long residency at the Lycée Français de Chicago, a distinguished international K-12 school in the North Lakeview neighborhood.  Our first events were two all-school assemblies, introducing the students to myself, Claire, and Rebekah, and featuring lots of extended playing techniques, wild repertoire, and crowdsourced improvising.  

ICE’s project at the Lycée is inspired by the great French-American composer Edgard Varèse, whose complete works ICE presented at the Lincoln Center Festival in 2010, with Sō Percussion and Steven Schick.  Varèse’s pathbreaking piece Poème Électronique, written for the 1958 Brussels World’s Fair, was one of the first pieces written purely for tape, and, originally, one of the first multimedia presentations with music; it was housed in a structure designed by the great architectural firm of Le Corbusier, and supervised by the architect and composer Iannis Xenakis (another ICE favorite).  During the six months of the fair, millions of people heard the piece as they walked through the structure, and were simultaneously treated to a light show with projections depicting the history of civilization.

The Poème Électronique was notable for another reason: it was notated by Varèse in a purely graphic style.  (ICE presented some realizations of Varèse’s graphic scores at the Kitchen in New York a few years ago.) ICE is no stranger to teaching graphic scores; it’s the basis of our Listening Room program.  The combination of electronics and non-traditional notation will influence the Lycée’s piece, which will take the form of a large-scale three-dimensional graphic score that listeners can walk through.  It will use many art media, and varied performing forces: four ICE players, student players, electronic processing and spatialization effects by Levy Lorenzo, and a special programmatic theme: the Lycée’s engagement with its Chicago communities.

The workshop sessions will involve diverse ICE players over the school year.  In November, Ryan Muncy joined me at the school for some improvising sessions with saxophone techniques.  In two weeks, ICE violinists David Bowlin and Jen Curtis will play part of their Hideout OpenICE show for a second-grade audience, and will lead a game with voices and percussion.  The classes so far have involved nearly every grade at the school, and the entire faculty has taken part, including art and music teachers.  Sessions have ranged from a discussion of piano acoustics, for twelfth-grade physics classes; an introduction to ideas in contemporary music theory, for a sixth-grade math class; and guiding a middle-school literature class through the Poème, where the students created a narrative of their own for the piece.  All students have learned about Varèse, who found his modern compositional voice when he left his European nest and became an adopted citizen of New York City.

The students have been great.  I’ll never forget when a fourth-grader perfectly described and imitated a theremin.  And a first-grader brilliantly encapsulated the Poème with this description: “It’s like a lot of different ideas all put together to make one piece of music.”  A third-grader compared the score of the Varèse piece to a cardiogram.  And an upper-school class had a philosophical discussion about musical notation, in which we explored how notation compares historically to other written forms of communication.  

And this exchange, with a second-grader who remembered me from the school assemblies:  

Student:  “Are you ICE?”
Jacob: “I am ICE!”

October 26, 2014

density haiku: meditations on breath

Impressions from Row G
by Arlene and Larry Dunn (@ICEfansArleneLD)

[Ed: ICEfans Arlene and Larry Dunn’s poetic take on Claire Chase's sold-out run at The Kitchen in NYC, October 2nd and 3rd, 2014.]

density haiku: meditations on breath

coiled wire muscles flex
daggers of platinum light
young girl breathe your voice

paroxysms of wind
swallowing herself in sound
deep drone of silence

chimera reflects
swirling gossamer echoes
she breathes whom she seeks

cheeping creatures scurry
she dances with many selves
recreating breath

stuttering message
her spiraling gymnastics
breathe an unknown code

a new moon rises
railing at breathless spirits
where is eurydice


Claire Chase: density 2036: part ii

The Kitchen, New York City, October 2-3, 2014

I. Density 21.5 for solo flute (Edgard Varèse, 1936); II. Meditation and Calligraphy for solo bass flute (Felipe Lara, 2014); III. Parábolas na Caverna for solo amplified flute (Felipe Lara, 2014); IV. Emergent for solo flute and electronics (George E. Lewis, 2014); V. Beyond (a system of passing) for solo flute (Matthias Pintscher, 2013); VI. an empty garlic for solo bass flute and electronics (Du Yun, 2014)

June 30, 2014

ICElab Confidential: Dehaan’s Sensory Illusions Permeate Constellation

Impressions from Row G

by Arlene and Larry Dunn (@ICEfansArleneLD)

[Ed: ICEfans Arlene and Larry Dunn’s journey following composer Daniel Dehaan through his ICElab experience has reached its destination.]

ICE closed out the 2013-14 concert season in stellar fashion with a tequila toast at Constellation Chicago on June 15, 2014. Tequila shots notwithstanding, the most intoxicating grog of the evening was the Chicago premiere of ICElab composer Dan Dehaan’s Trompe l’Corps. If Roulette in Brooklyn was an apt venue for the December world premiere of Dan’s piece, owing to its connotations of the chance nature of the cosmic forces Dan is reckoning with, Constellation was equally relevant for its evocation of astronomical phenomena.

It’s not often we hear an ICE premiere a second time. But following Daniel through ICELab as he composed Trompe l’Corps collaboratively with ICE musicians, we had the pleasure to hear both the Roulette and the Constellation renderings. While we lost the element of surprise (something we usually delight in) for the second hearing, it was fascinating to hear numerous ways in which the piece had subtly morphed.

Of course the acoustic character of the spaces are different, creating significant challenges for Dan and ICE sound engineer Levy Lorenzo to reshape the sound of the piece to fit Constellation. In addition, all of the players were different except bassoonist Rebekah Heller. Katinka Kelijn took the cellist's bench (which she had occupied during development of the piece). The other instrumentalists were violist Maiya Papach and percussionist Ross Karre.

The most striking change in roster was soprano Alice Teyssier replacing Tony Arnold for this second performance. The timbres of their voices are quite different and their stylistic choices emphasized different aspects of the score and this critical role in it. Alice’s treatment was brighter and conveyed a sense of amazed wonderment, where Tony’s approach felt earthier and expressed a more knowing acceptance of the cosmic mysteries Trompe l’Corps assays. Despite these difference, each of them compelled our rapt attention.

Another revelation we had from the ongoing evolution of the piece was Dan’s further refinement of the realization of the electronic elements of the performance. In both cases we were overwhelmed by the sonic evocation of Jean Baudrillard’s “unbearable incandescence.” But at Constellation, Dan (in partnership with Levy) achieved a much more clearly delineated sense of individual components as we experienced aural stimuli coming at as from every direction until the multiple layers collapsed to a point of frightening chaos.

The Constellation performance brought the ICElab process for Dan and Trompe l’Corps to a close. Still unrealized is Dan’s full-scale vision for the piece in a multi-day, multi-room sound installation version. We’re hoping we’ll get to experience that sometime very soon. 

June 12, 2014

Program Notes: #ICElab 2013’s Daniel R. Dehaan

Daniel R. Dehaan

from the composer

Trompe l’Corps has been developed in close collaboration with members of ICE as part of ICElab 2013. It was first premiered by ICE in December of 2013 at Roulette in New York. The guiding inspiration for the project came from the book The Perfect Crime by French philosopher Jean Baudrillard (1929-2007). In the first chapter of the book Baudrillard makes a comparison of reality to a perfect crime, in that you cannot prove nor disprove its existence. Uniquely, Baudrillard phrases this as a statement of thankfulness.

“Fortunately, the objects which appear to us have always-already disappeared. Fortunately, nothing appears to us in real time, any more than do the stars in the night sky. If the speed of light were infinite, all the stars would be there simultaneously and the celestial vault would be an unbearable incandescence. Fortunately, nothing takes place in real time. Otherwise, we would be subjected, where information is concerned, to the light of all events, and the present would be an unbearable incandescence. Fortunately, we live on the basis of a vital illusion, on the basis of an absence, an unreality, a non-immediacy of things. Fortunately, reality does not take place. Fortunately, the crime is never perfect.”

Trompe l’Corps comes from within this place. It attempts to make present what has always-already disappeared, exposing both a potential violence and a potential beauty. I imagine time as a car hurtling down a dirt road, and we existing caught in the debris swirling about behind it, always crashing forward, but ever entangled in the refuse of the past and present.


Daniel Dehaan: ICElab @ Roulette (December 2013) from ICE on Vimeo.

The work is oriented around a chamber ensemble comprised of a soprano (Alice Teyssier), a bassoon (Rebekah Heller), a viola (Maiya Papach), a cello (Katinka Kleijn), & percussion (Ross Karre). Their sounds get expanded, collapsed, or placed in dialogue with live electronic manipulation/accompaniment (Levy Lorenzo & myself) and lighting design(Nick Houfek). No one element of the concert is limited to a single role, but rather they all work contemporaneously with one another as a tangled mass which moves around the audience.

THe audience’s position within the soundscape plays an important part in the piece’s formal structure that shifts from different locations of the interior and the exterior. While the acoustic materials explore these concepts in their own way, the spacial aspects are more readily understood through the changes in the electronics, amplification, and lighting. I am really looking forward to sharing this work with Chicago at Constellation. We will be embracing the venue as much as possible to expand the concert into the space and around the audience. 

After over a year of development through ICElab, I am extremely pleased with what we have created. What will be presented at Constellation is the concert version of Trompe l’Corps and I hope to continue to work with ICE towards a future version that further blurs the boundaries between concert and installation to even further explore Baudrillard’s concepts through the lens of music.

A special thanks to Larry & Arlene Dunn, whose support, conversations and enthusiasm contributed greatly to the development of Trompe l’Corps.

Trompe l'Corps makes its Chicago debut on Sunday, June 15 at 8:30 pm.

As part of the #OpenICE initiative, this performance will be presented completely FREE. 
Get more information and RSVP on Facebook.

April 11, 2014

Touching Sound: Levy Lorenzo on Lucier at the MCA Chicago

photo: Joshua Rubin

by Levy Lorenzo

I had the wonderful opportunity to work closely with American experimental music visionary and pioneer - Alvin Lucier.  I engineered and realized 11 of 15 works by Mr. Lucier spread out over ICE’s 3 night residency at the Chicago MCA, as well as served as the Project Lead for the ICE organization.

I was struck by Mr. Lucier’s commitment to sound as a physical entity.  Mr. Lucier mentions in his book CHAMBERS (p35) that rather than conceptualize pure sine tones in terms of high and low frequencies, he thinks of them as measurable wavelengths.  Sound waves exist as a physical distance.  

In other words, given the nominal speed of sound at 343 m/s and using the formula...

Speed = Frequency x Wavelength

...we can find that the wavelength of a 440Hz (A4) tone is 0.78 meters (2 feet, 6 inches).  Similarly, a low note of 100Hz will have a larger wavelength 3.43 meters (11 feet, 3 inches).  If my body fits exactly into a 218Hz sine wave, I’ll let you readers figure out how tall I am.

Given the specific dimensions of the 4th floor space at the MCA, I used such calculations to create the realization of the piece Still and Moving Lines of Silence in Families of Hyperbolas.  Mr. Lucier’s first instruction is to create standing waves in the room.  Just to explain a bit, a standing wave occurs in a room when a sine tone’s wavelength has an integer multiple relationship with a linear dimension of the particular room.  Thus, when that wave bounces off the wall, both the incident and reflected waves reinforce each other.  The result is a wave with exaggerated crests (high points) and troughs (low points) of sound energy that does not move in space - i.e. the wave  is standing.  Further, when this sine tone is played through 2 speakers, the respective standing waves create additional interference patterns.  This results a “sound geography”, as Mr. Lucier puts it, where there are particular places in the room where sound is very loud (crests) and others that are extremely quiet (troughs).  The main instruction of the piece is to have the performers slowly move through the space along the path of the troughs, using only their ears to guide them.  



The performers would theoretically walk along the blue paths.  In reality, the difference in sound volume is striking.  During the actual performance Mr. Lucier, led both ICE and audience members in a haunting procession guided by a 140Hz sine tone.  As an extension, I think this would be an amazing application to guide the movement of visually impaired individuals through public spaces.

One of the most interesting pieces that I had the pleasure of working on was Directions of Sounds from the Bridge.  In this piece, Mr. Lucier wants to show that sounds of different frequencies radiate in different directions from the body of a violin.


As per the score, I attached a sound transducer to the bridge of a violin.  Any surface that a transducer is attached to receives the transducer’s vibrations.

photo: Levy Lorenzo

I then attached this to an amplifier and a sine tone generator that I designed.  This system essentially transforms the violin into a loud speaker that plays pure sine waves.  The second part of the score calls for a system of sound sensitive lights to be placed symmetrically, surrounding the violin.  The brightness of each light directly responds to volume of sound.  The audience can then visualize the actual spatial sound movement of the among the lights.

video: Levy Lorenzo

I built this using 8 microphones, 8 lights, custom mapping software (on a 2nd computer) and a DMX interface.  The performance was a mesmerizing, organic fading of lights as sound emanated in different directions through the space from the violin.  After working with this piece, I then thought it would be interesting to have a transducer on a violin that was also being played live by a violinist.  The performer could interact with sounds from the transducer in a sort of instrumental/electronic duet where all sounds radiated from the same resonating body.

Finally, the third piece I’d like to highlight is Music for Pure Waves, Bass Drums and Acoustic Pendulums.  Four ping-pong balls were suspended from the ceiling using fishing line such that each ball was just touching the heads of four large concert bass drums.  Each drum had a speaker behind it.  Using his personal sine tone generator, Mr. Lucier played very low frequencies to excite the heads of the drums, causing the ping-pong balls to be launched forward, to then return and bounce again.  Different frequencies caused different degrees of response in different drums to create various pendulum rhythms.  Its as if the drums were playing ping-pong rudiments.

photo:  Levy Lorenzo

This project has been one of my most rewarding and musical-mind-altering experiences.  I feel so lucky to be in a position to thoroughly combine my skills as an engineer and a musician as a member of world-class contemporary ensemble and working with the inspiring, Alvin Lucier.  He has reminded me that music is not only something we can hear, but also something that we can see and touch.

April 2, 2014

Sitting in a Room with Alvin Lucier

photo: Larry Dunn

Impressions from Row G

by Arlene and Larry Dunn (@ICEfansArleneLD)

Three straight evenings of ICE assaying 45 years of Alvin Lucier’s music, with Alvin present and performing, was like diving in crystalline Caribbean waters with the kaleidoscope of colors and textures a feast of sound for the ears, rather than a rainbow riot of fish and coral reef to delight the eyes. This total immersion into Lucier’s sound sea overwhelmed our senses in the fourth floor gallery and atrium at the Museum of Contemporary Art Chicago on March 21, 22, and 23, 2014.

photo collage: Sitting in a Room with Alvin, by Larry Dunn

Fittingly, the festival opened with Alvin performing his iconic masterwork I am sitting in a room (1969). With his book Chambers in hand, he entered the room, sat crossed-legged revealing his trademark red socks, opened the book, and read the 105-word text. Through a dozen iterations of recording and re-recording, his spoken words gradually dissolved into pure rhythmic sounds expressing the acoustic qualities of the space. The final iteration sounded like muffled metallic percussion strikes reverberating through water. 

Cellist Katinka Kleijn dazzled with Music for Cello with One or More Amplified Vases (1992). Seated among an array of vases of varying size, chosen, placed and mic’ed by sound engineer extraordinaire Levy Lorenzo, Katinka unleashed a continuous stream of tones that excited the vases to vibrate, sending out sonic waves picked up by their mics. The vases’ unique shapes – tall, narrow, short, squat – reacted differently, creating a eerie, quiet cacophony of sound. Katinka initially appeared to be in charge, but as the vases came alive and competed for attention, they seemed to be calling the tune. Katinka’s performance was a tour de force of focused concentration. She never lifted her bow off the cello as she steadfastly elevated the tone, so slowly that her left hand moved down the fingerboard almost imperceptibly.

photo: Larry Dunn

It was aurally arresting to hear Codex (2013), both more ephemeral and more striking, in a vastly different space than when we heard the world premiere in an opulent turn-of-the-20th-century salon at the Americas Society in New York. Seated in front of the resonant four-story atrium, soprano Tony Arnold, violinist David Bowlin, oboist Nick Masterson, guitarist Dan Lippel, clarinetist Josh Rubin, and Katinka unearthed sounds from ancient Peruvian tombs. Tony’s wordless vocalizations were like mourning lamentations over the ancient echoes of a lost, stolen, obliterated culture.

photo: Larry Dunn

Carbon Copies (1989) makes use of happenstance and improvisation to produce a unique outcome in every performance. Saxophonist Ryan Muncy, pianist Phyllis Chen, and percussionist Ross Karre each made their own field recordings, per the instructions in the score. These environmental recordings were mixed and played back in the performance space as the first section of the work. The players, spread around the room, gradually entered with sparse phrases of improvised sounds, emulating elements of the recorded sound – Ross crumpling and ripping paper, then muffled striking on wood blocks; Ryan spurting toneless blurts mixed with pops, squeals, and percussive key taps; Phyllis chaotically tinkling upper-register keys, plucking and slapping strings inside the piano. Soon, we were enveloped in a complex sound tapestry in which it was hard to discern the recorded from the instantaneous. Then the recordings faded out, leaving only phantom memories, as the improvisers strived to sustain the sound complex on their own.

To bring the festivities to a close, we took one final ride on a Silver Street Car for the Orchestra (1988). Percussionist Nathan Davis gamely took the role of streetcar conductor, armed only with an orchestral triangle and a metal striker. Starting with a tone and rhythm that might have come straight from a San Francisco cable car, Nathan laid down an eight-minute nonstop barrage. He varied the striking spot, placement and extent of left-hand damping, and speed and volume of his strokes, displaying the vast diversity of sound a triangle can make. Our ears are still ringing.